Crucifixion Discussion June 2
If you followed the posts and responses under the article on a Pro-Israel piece (May 17), you will know that a question from Scandinavia came about a dissertation just defended in Sweden that argues that much of what we think know about the crucifixion needs to be unlearned. Gunnar Samuelsson has written Crucifixion in Antiquity.
If you followed the posts and responses under the article on a Pro-Israel piece (May 17), you will know that a question from Scandinavia came about a dissertation just defended in Sweden that argues that much of what we think know about the crucifixion needs to be unlearned. Gunnar Samuelsson has written Crucifixion in Antiquity.
As a way to get our hands around this claim, I am posting the citation on crucifixion from Josephus that describes a death on the cross as a horrible death. I will let you be the judge. The text is War 7.200-203. I have the Greek as well and the term for cross is our NT term stauros. It clearly involves a hanging in public and is described as a most miserable death.
War 7:200 (7.6.4.200) So the general of the Romans ordered that he should be taken up naked, set before the city to be seen, and sorely whipped before their eyes. Upon this sad accident that befell the young man, the Jews were terribly confounded, and the city with one voice sorely lamented him, and the mourning proved greater than could well be supposed upon the calamity of a single person.
War 7:201 (7.6.4.201) When Bassus perceived that, he began to think of using a stratagem against the enemy and was desirous to aggravate their grief, in order to prevail with them to surrender the city for the preservation of that man. Nor did he fail of his hope;
War 7:202 (7.6.4.202) for he commanded them to set up a cross, as if he were just going to hang Eleazar upon it immediately: the sight of this occasioned a sore grief among those that were in the citadel, and they groaned vehemently, and cried out that they could not bear to see him thus destroyed.
War 7:203 (7.6.4.203) Whereupon Eleazar besought them not to disregard him, now he was going to suffer a most miserable death, and exhorted them to save themselves, by yielding to the Roman power and good fortune, since all other people were now conquered by them.
6 Comments
Magnus Nordlund
whats at stake here?
Ive just got Samuelssons dissertation in my mailbox.. It looks pretty solid indeed (and the sources you cited above are of course included in his disseration as with all other relevant data too ). One thing is clear though, which Samuelsson states firmly: There is no denial of Jesus execution or its theological implication: for the sins of the world… Its just whether this was on a cross (+) or a stake or whatever … My question in conclusion: Does it really matter how Jesus died from a faith perspective; as long as he really died for our sins?.. Sincerely Magnus
Darrell L. Bock
Form or shape of the cross
Magnus:
The shape of the cross has always been discussed. Is it a T or t and the like. Raymond Brown's work on Jesus' death has a pretty full discussion of that. If that is all we are discussing, then this was a lot of hype about very little.
Andre
more info
Some of the details are covered here if anyone's interested: http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2010/05/if-samuelsson-is-right-about.html
Cecilia
I think cross
You've got to take a look att this thorough investigation, with clear sources from the centuries before and after Christ, textual analysis of the gospel accounts + archaeological reference. (It's by a "LadyArwen", as a response to Jehovas Witnesses old claim about a stake) After reading the article, i cannot believe he was crucified without a crossbeam, it was either on a + or on a T. (Have not read Samuelsson's work yet, but did he by any chance forget about a couple of contemporary Roman sources?)
Cecilia
I think cross
Sorry, i forgot to include the document: http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/391343
Darrell L. Bock
Cross
Thanks for this full entry, Cecilia. I have not yet seen the dissertation, so I cannot comment on what is included.