A New Look at Twilight, Different Conclusion

Sue Bohlin's picture

Last year I blogged about Twilight, connecting the dots between the supernatural vampire character of Edward Cullen and Jesus. I suggested that perhaps the reason millions of people so resonate with that character is that what they’re really looking for is the glory and perfection of the Lord Jesus Christ, which Edward appears to manifest in various ways.

Since then, I have read all the books and done months of research. It’s like pulling the camera focus back, back, back. . . . and finding some extremely disturbing details now in our field of vision.

I have now come to a very different conclusion.

I was stunned to learn about how the idea for Twilight came to the author, Stephenie Meyer. She tells this story:

“I woke up . . . from a very vivid dream. In my dream, two people were having an intense conversation in a meadow in the woods. One of these people was just your average girl. The other person was fantastically beautiful, sparkly, and a vampire. They were discussing the difficulties inherent in the facts that A) they were falling in love with each other while B) the vampire was particularly attracted to the scent of her blood, and was having a difficult time restraining himself from killing her immediately. "

“Fantastically beautiful, sparkly, and a vampire”? Consider what vampires are, in the vampire genre that arose in the 1800s: demon-possessed, undead, former human beings who suck blood from their victims to sustain themselves. A vampire is evil. And the vampire who came to Stephenie Meyer in a dream is not only supernaturally beautiful and sparkly, but when she awoke she was deeply in love with this being who virtually moved into her head, creating conversations for months that she typed out (obsessively, she says) until Twilight was written.

When I heard this part of the story, it gave me chills. 2 Cor. 11:14 tells us that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, which is a perfect description of the Edward Cullen character.

Then I learned that “Edward” came to Meyer in a second dream that frightened her. She said, "I had this dream that Edward actually showed up and told me that I got it all wrong and like he exists and everything but he couldn't live off animals. . . and I kind of got the sense he was going to kill me. It was really terrifying and bizarrely different from every other time I've thought about his character."

I believe that Stephenie Meyer’s dream was not your ordinary dream. The fact that “Edward” came to her in a second dream that terrified her (but she dismissed it and kept on writing), indicates this may have been a demonic visitation. I do believe Twilight was demonically inspired.

But there’s more.

All four books are permeated with the occult. The Twilight vampires all have various kinds of powers that don’t come from God. They are supernaturally fast, supernaturally strong, able to read others’ minds and control others’ feelings. Some can tell the future, others can see things at great distances. These aspects of the occult are an important part of what makes Twilight so successful.

In both the Old and New Testaments, God strongly warns us not to have anything to do with the occult,  which is part of the “domain of darkness” (Col. 1:13). Twilight glorifies the occult, the very thing God calls detestable (Deut. 18:9). This is reason enough for Christ-followers to stay away from it!

Last year I wondered if Edward was something of a Christ-figure. Now I think this character is a devious spiritual counterfeit to Jesus that has captured the hearts of millions of obsessed fans who are in love with a demonic “angel of light.”

And they don’t know it.

 

Note: My article on the Probe website is now online, with much more information than what's in this blog post: http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.6099193/k.76B1/The_Darkness_of_Twilight.htm

Comments

Pardon me, but um, how in the hell are any of the vampire's powers related to the occult? The Twilight-verse vampire powers come from their altered biology and have nothing to do with magic. If we except your logic, then Superman is promoting the occult as well.

Of course the Twilight films are occult! And.they can very well make you possessed!

Sue Bohlin's picture

God specified forbidden behaviors that fall under the category of "occult" millenia before vampire literature came along. It's the fact that their behaviors are occult that matters, not how Stephenie Meyer gave them a naturalistic explanation.

Sue,

Encouraged by your new look on Twilight. In support of what you have said, I will share some research I have done. Here are a few things specific about the 'Twilight Saga' that might help others that read your blog see a little 'proof in the pudding', so to speak.

1) The books and movies are a doorway to the occult. The Twilight conventions have a 'Dealer Room' with 'vendors' set up promoting the occult (See link below).

2) Lyrics to the songs from the sound track pervert the name of Christ and sing of the Demonic(see below).

3) We are warned by C.S. Lewis that the "occult awakens in us a spiritual kind of lust". Many profess being literally obsessed with the books reading them 5, 10, 25 times over and over again. This is not normal behaviour, and would be foolish of us to over look. (see links below)

4) Scripture tells us "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom", and "if we love God we will keep His commands". The Lord is clear about the occult and "anything that exhaults itself above the Knowledge of God". Edward and Bella are referred to as the Lion and the Lamb, and the introduction of Twilight takes us back to the garden where Eve was deceived and ate the apple. Stephanie Meyers even states on her website she "likes the use of the apple because it reminds us we have a choice". So many issues with Twilight and it is clear we are being ambushed by the enemy! Not everyone will get pulled in to the same degree, and those in Christ can repent and be healed from any effects, but many of our young are at risk.

5) MTV has done research that confirms our concerns. If shows like 'The Craft' have turned our young to Wicca, what kind of effect with Twilight have that far exceeds the popularity of The Craft.

I would encourage your readers to get on their face before our Holy God and ask the Spirit of God to reveal to them the truth and open the eyes of their hearts. If they are willing to do this and receive the answer they get, the Lord will be faithful to give wisdom and bring things into the light. Blessings to you Sue!!

Wicca is one of the fastest-growing religions in the United States." —MTV News In an MTV news report that cited a study conducted by the City University of New York, it stated that, “Wicca is one of the fastest-growing religions in the United States.” MTV also admitted the following:“A surprising number of young witches MTV News spoke with also said that they became curious about their faith through misguiding pop-culture fare like the camp Neve Campbell vehicle "The Craft" and the "Harry Potter" series. (Guess a few conservative Christian groups were right about that one.)”

FLIGHTLESS BIRD/AMERICAN MOUTH
Now I'm a fat house cat
Nursing my sore blunt tongue
Watching the warm poison rats curl through the wide fence cracks
Pissing on magazine photos
Those fishing lures thrown in the cold
And clean blood of Christ mountain stream

A White Demon Love Song
White demon, where's your selfish kiss?
White demon sorrow will arrange
Let's not forget about the fear
Black invitation to this place that cannot change
Wild, strangely holy, come for a rain

Chicago Twilight Convention – Promoter of the Occult http://spesunica.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/chicago-twilight-convention-promoter-of-the-occult/

http://thetwilightsaga.fandango.com/thread/3310199/How+many+times+have+you+read+the+Twilight+Books%3F http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100324060858AAV6o3O

Sue Bohlin's picture

Thanks for your comments, Holly. I came across the same links in my research. My Probe radio program on Twilight will air in two weeks, and the expanded web article will have a lot of information in it that I didn't have time to include in my 2.5 minutes per day.

Thank you for alerting me to a number of things I needed to know about this spiritually dangerous series!

Dear Sue! I want to communicate with you about a bad situation because this movie. Could you contact to me via email? Thanks so much! God bless you!

Sue Bohlin's picture

Dear friend,

Thanks for asking! I sent you an email and look forward to hearing back.

Sue

I do not understand your position on vampires. In your first blog you brushed off vampires as fiction. You state: "However, thinking biblically, we know that the vampire “kind” doesn’t truly exist. It’s a fantasy. There are no “undead” people like vampires. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that “it is appointed unto man to die once; and after this comes judgment.” Transitioning from human to vampire by being bitten with a vampire’s venom doesn’t happen." Now in your current blog you are associating vampires with the satanic. You state "Consider what vampires are, in the vampire genre that arose in the 1800s: demon-possessed, undead, former human beings who suck blood from their victims to sustain themselves. A vampire is evil." Why was not the satanic association of vampires an issue in your first blog? Surely you knew this association when you penned your first blog? It seems to me that many Christians are inconsistent in their "Biblical Convictions." For example many criticized Harry Potter because it promotes witchcraft. They will quote scripture about witchcraft being forbidden in the Bible. Many of these same people are now praising Twilight because it is a "sweet love-story." They choose to ignore the unscriptural things in this series. I am getting sick of Christians justifying or condemning some book or movie based on whether they like it. Our likes should never be the authority. The Bible should. If someone likes Harry Potter they will say the witchcraft doesn't matter because it is a fictitious book. It is amazing how many quoted scripture against Harry Potter and yet have praised Twilight. Will Christians ever get consistent? This reminds me of James 1:8, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Sue Bohlin's picture

Why did I change my position? The answer is in the second paragraph:

Since then, I have read all the books and done months of research. It’s like pulling the camera focus back, back, back. . . . and finding some extremely disturbing details now in our field of vision.

I now know things I didn't know before. I had never given vampires much thought before, and after I did needed research on the subject, I changed my position.

I cannot answer for other Christians. I can only share the results of my own analysis after doing more "due diligence" than my original take.

To your previous reader.. In my humble opinion, the change of Sue's heart was first a work of the Holy Spirit. Anything we are able to see or do that pleases the Lord certianly does not come from our own flesh, but rather the work the Spirit of God does in us. Secondly, Sue pointed out that the 'intention' of the dream given to Stephanie Meyer is the driver for her change. She learned that this dream was from the enemy (something she did not know before) and once we understand the root and intention of the content of these books and movies, it changes everything. Take the seductive dance of a women for example; In the bedroom with her husband it can be God honoring, the same dance in a strip club leading men to lust is dishonoring to God. The intention and heart of Twilight was revealed to Sue, which is a dream (idea) from the enemy to lead hearts away from the cross and to the occult, just like Harry Potter lead some into witchcraft. MTV did a interview and found many that confessed the influence of Harry Potter led them to partake in witchcraft. Sadly, with Twilight, the enemy sugar coated it even more so that Christians would be deceived. This is no different than our choice to flee from pride one day, but maybe not so much the next. I hope you join us in pleading with the Spirit of God to overtake the minds of our sisters in Christ and expose this evil for what it is.. but careful as we go least we be the one to stumble.

Sue Bohlin's picture

I am grateful for the different perspective that I do believe is from the Lord. I'm constantly learning how to better analyze things from a biblical perspective, and the difference between my two posts is an example of my own growth.

I'm also become more and more aware of how many believers live happily in "cultural captivity," squeezed into the mold formed by the values and beliefs of one's surrounding culture (whether that culture is Texas or China or Africa) instead of taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ and relinquishing our wrong beliefs when we learn they differ from what the Bible says. So I'm not surprised by the number of Christians who are enthusiastically obsessed by and addicted to Twilight-world, even though so much of it violates biblical teachings. That breaks my heart as much as the way they unwittingly open themselves to the demonic realm because they are embracing the occult without realizing it.

I had read your original blog on the comparison between Edward and Jesus and thought, "Wow! I never thought of Edward quite like that!" Now, with the extensive "about face" of this blog, while I part of me has a great and healthy respect for Christ and the occult, a part of me wrestles with the fact that this is a story. Yes, I've read the books several times and have seen the movies. When I walk away from the books and the theater, I think, "Nice read, nice movie, so what?!" It doesn't seem to have an impact on me (I'm 46!). But, at the same time, you have awakened in me a concern for our younger generation, STILL searching for the meaning of true relationships and for what the church and Christ has to offer: the Truth!

Sue Bohlin's picture

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm curious, if it's just a story, just a nice read, why read the books several times if they are not having an impact on you?

And if God warns us not to have anything to do with the occult, why reread books that glorify it? This is why I think it's so important not to buy into the illusion that there is any such thing as pure entertainment that is value-free and message-free (and agenda-free). To take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, we need to pass what we read and listen to through the filter of "What does God's word have to say about this?" and "What does this say about life, about reality, about God, about man, about truth?"

I'm grateful for your concern for the younger generation, who will be the leaders of the church in the next!

I have a stupid question and I hope you can answer it. Would it be possible for a demon to possess a dead body and use it to attack people? I know that ghosts are actually demons pretending to be disembodied spirits. I'm just wondering if zombies and such are a possibility or if its just another satanic hoax to scare people like ghosts are. Can you supply me with Bible verses that prove or disprove your opinion? I would love to hear from you.

Sue Bohlin's picture

Hi Ordo,

I don't think that's a stupid question at all.

There's no scriptural indication (not even a hint, I believe) that demons possess dead bodies. This might be the basis for the idea of vampires and zombies, I don't know, but since scripture is our foundation for truth and scripture only describes demons possessing the living, that's as far as we can go.

Good call on the true identity of ghosts! My colleague at Probe Ministries, Pat Zukeran, wrote a fascinating article called "The World of Animism," which is the belief system that explains where we get the idea of ghosts and disembodied spirits from. It connected SO many dots for me!

Sue

Firstly Sue, great job on the research...spot on...

Ordo, You give an interesting question which I have never thought about...I have vast personal experience with demons and possessions and those affected. I can't think of a specific scripture to base my answer on but I don't believe that demons can possess a dead body. There is no record in the Bible of dead possession but the Legion asked to go into the swine as they were territorial and could only roam in a specific area. I don't know what happened after the pigs ran off the cliff.

Only God can create life, Satan can give the illusion of healing but not raise the dead, that can only be done in the name of Jesus Christ.

A possessed body has usually invited that evil spirit in sometimes openly and sometimes unwittingly. Dabbling in the occult and giving room in you life for things such as twilight and harry potter are opening doors for demonic possession and for those who are saved demonic oppression.

Demons can get into houses and even churches, there are probably more demons hanging round solid bible churches than the masonic lodge.

You can know their presence by some of these syptoms:

  • Cold feeling (unnatural chill)
  • Out of the ordinary aggression or misbehaviour of children or animals. (We had cats that would have a half hour mental fit, most cats do, but if there was a spirit in the house it was 10 times worse, I was attacked by our cats during an episode and I had to pin the cat down and cast out the demon in the name of Jesus.
  • A sudden tension in the house between spouses or kids
  • A watched feeling.
  • Voices, sounds. Things turning on by themselves.
  • Inability to sleep or weird and vivid dreams.

Remember: 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

To get rid of spirits from your house:

Read aloud:1 John 4:1-6 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. [5] They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. [6] We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Claim the blood of Jesus upon the house/ room (sometimes you have to do it in every room before it will leave). Command the demon to leave by the power and authority in the name of Jesus Christ.

I know I went off topic but I felt the Lord would have me say these things for others to learn from.

God Bless you all and thank you Sue so much for your insight into these films, praise God for someone who will stand for truth!!!

Sue Bohlin's picture

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Pastor Bob!

Lots of people warn against extremes when thinking and talking about the demonic realm, not wanting to "find a demon behind every bush," and of course wisdom means avoiding extremism on most things. (I seek to be extreme in my love and commitment to Jesus, so not ALL extremes are bad!) But it is also possible to get to the point of dismissing any and all references to the demonic, as if demons only infest third-world countries.

I have personally talked to a number of people who needed specific help in accessing the power of the Cross to combat the lies, schemes and wiles of the enemy that manifest in creepy and scary ways. Satan and his cohorts do traffic in the realm of fear! And these were Americans, not Haitians!

So thank you for your helpful comments.

Sue

God created EVERYTHING....right?!

God created Satan, so God created evil.

And now, God sits back while evil runs rampant on the earth, and everyone blames Satan.

Why aren't you blaming God for creating evil in the first place? Why aren't you blaming God for not getting rid of Satan a long time ago? Why aren't you blaming God for sitting by and allowing evil to run rampant, for disease and famine to run rampant, and for for allowing evil people like Sue Bohlin to spread "evil scare tactics" to the world?

James 3:8-11

8 but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness.

10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.

11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?

Supposed Christians like Sue Bohlin are hypocrites and this scripture proves it. She spouts the word of God out of one side of her mouth and then cursing out of the other.

It's fiction for pete's sake! If y'all are so weak in God that you fear falling under its spell, then don't go to the movies and don't read the books!

Sue Bohlin's picture

I'm afraid your starting point is wrong, and if the starting point is wrong, then an argument can't go in the right direction.

Did God create evil? No.

The spiritual realm and the physical universe God created was good, perfect, beautiful. The angel who became Satan by an act of his will was created holy and good. It's because of this angel's pride and rebellion that he introduced evil into God's creation, and Satan became evil, flawed and unholy. God did not create Satan that way.

Could God have gotten rid of Satan a long time ago? Certainly He could have banished Satan to the lake of fire at the beginning of time instead of the end of it, but He chose to use Satan as an instrument in His hand to achieve His purposes instead. We tiny, finite, incredibly dense human beings--compared to the infinite wisdom and omniscience of God who sees everything--can't see the big picture the way God does, so it's easy for us to condemn Him for not taking Satan out of the picture to make life easier for us.

But He had a better plan. Which involved Jesus going to the cross and suffering in ways we can't begin to comprehend. Which also means that the end result must be worth it in order for our God to willingly suffer far more than any of us have suffered in this flawed, fallen, pain-filled world.

The core of the plan involves the love story between God and people, and you can't have love that is not freely given. Unfortunately, you can't have the freedom to love without the freedom to choose NOT to love, which is how first Satan, and then we, chose evil over good, chose rebellion over love.

Evil was created with the first evil choicem, which was Satan's. God did not create it.

I have very much enjoyed reading your views of the Twlight Saga. I am a 28 year old female so you can only imagine how many of my friends have read these books or seen the movies. I feel the same way as you do about them and I am glad you have done the research. I had nothing to back my ideas, I just have a bad feeling about the movies and books. Also these movies are mostly pulling in a teenage crowd. Isn't it hard enough to be a teenager without the idea of this ridiculous romance that no one will ever be able to live up to. It honestly scares me for these poor girls that will one day be looking for love like that.

Sue Bohlin's picture

Thank you, Shelly!

I just learned yesterday that the Toys R Us by my sister-in-law has a huge Twilight display right as you walk in the door. Twilight for children? That is craziness! It's not bad enough that it's sucking millions of teens and tweens into the Twi-world, but adults are feeding the frenzy by buying Twi-junk for children! Lord have mercy.

Let me first self-identify as one who as only seen the second movie and never read the books, but has spent a decent amount of time learning about Twilight. Having read both of your posts under discussion hear, I'd like to say that I think the two posts go hand in hand and are both accurate. The Twilight saga is a cleverly crafted lie that leads to a very destructive end. It is clever because on the surface it looks and feels good, like truth. The archetype of Christ in Edward is there and I'd argue it is there very intentionally. It is a love story that echoes the greatest love story of all, which is why it resonates so well in the hearts of women and young girls. But as you look more deeply at the story, as you have done in your second entry, the lie becomes more evident. It is subtle, but it is powerful and changes everything just as "You will surely die" becoming "you will surely not die" changed the course of human history. I agree wholeheartedly that Christians need to be on high alert on this topic, but at the same time we must also shine light into this darkness and help those that have believed in this lie see it for what it is and redirect them to the better, true story of Christ and His redemptive love.

You have no doubt recieved the response I just posted to your blog from last summer regarding Twilight. I am so thrilled to find this post as I continued to look through your blog. My heart was so heavy over the previous post that I had to keep looking into your writing. Thank you for being wise enough to look further and to post your change of opinion. Blessings and Joy to you In Jesus Name.

Sue Bohlin's picture

I understand why your heart was heavy! Thank you for the affirmation and for continuing to read until you found out where I ended up. The Lord bless you and keep you today!

Hi Again Sue... BK children's meals also feature Twighlight Toys...yes, they are marketing this facination with the undead to two year olds...talk about imprinting them...(I think that's the term they used when Jacob in the books fixated on a baby) This thread has been such a relief to read. Thanks again.

Sue Bohlin's picture

Yikes! Welcome to the world, where making money trumps common sense and especially spiritual truth every time. Come quickly Lord Jesus!

Thank you for sharing this with me. I'm collecting anecdotes and illustrations of Twilight's "rotten fruit," and I will add this to my list.

You said that I got the starting part wrong saying that "Did God create evil?"

MY starting point was, 'GOD CREATED EVERYTHING' which means that he had to have created evil. If he created Satan, he created a creature capable of creating sin. You conveniently left that part off.

You may argue that Satan wasn't always evil. That's irrelevant....he became evil, so therefore God created a creature capable of BECOMING evil. God had control over everything and how it was created and what it was to become. So if he introduced a creature capable of becoming evil, so it's God's fault.

Jesus dying on the cross is not a "better plan," it's an AWFUL plan! Who in their right mind would create a child that they knew they were going to have killed in a cruel and viscous way? Why not just banish the evil and all sin in a multitude of OTHER ways? Why not take King Herod or Pontious Pilate and put them on the cross as a way to banish sin? It's ridiculous to think that the BEST plan was to kill Jesus Christ. What other plans were considered?!

You say, "Evil was created with the first evil choice, which was Satan's. God did not create it."

I remain, God created EVERYTHING, therefore he created evil and sin. He could just have easily left the ability to sin and the ability to create evil out of every living creature.

If you're going to go to a potter's wheel to make a coffee mug, will you blend a poisonous material into the glaze just to create a beautiful effect? No...because that would kill everyone who drinks from it. But if you did do that, would it be the coffee mugs fault if someone dies, or the person that created the mug?

Likewise with Twilight, God created the person who created this series of books. HE gave them the ability to imagine and create.

If people are so weak in their faith that the creatures of Twilight threaten their existence with God, then they aren't very good Christians to begin with. If a person is strong in their faith, these books should have no effect on them whatsoever.

To the rest of the world who could care less either way, we are able to differentiate between fact and fiction and read these books for the fiction that they are. God put the tree of wisdom on earth that ruined everything for everyone. How do you know he hasn't put the author of Twilight here to do the same thing or that he hasn't created vampires for some Godly reason?

Sue Bohlin's picture

Hello Eric,

I'm sorry, but I cannot concede that your starting point is valid. Everything that God created was indeed good, and that included the ability for His creatures to choose evil. Even if we can't understand how that works. But to say that God created evil is like blaming the architects and builders of the World Trade Center for building terrible buildings since they fell down.

I do understand that this may seem like craziness, like your assessment of Jesus dying on the cross as an awful plan. But it seems like craziness because of our very limited perspective. We only have a small, small piece of the whole picture. God didn't tell us every detail of how everything was going to work out, only that it would.

Could God have left the ability to sin out of every living creature with a choice? Yes, He could. He would have breathing machines, but not people who could choose to return His love and to enter into a love relationship with Him. Without the ability to choose NOT to love, there is no choice to love. You could program your computer to greet you every time you booted up with a female voice that said, "Hello, my darling Eric. You are so amazing, so handsome, so wonderful, so much beyond my hopes and dreams. I love you, I love you, I love you!" But since you had programmed the very words, you would know that your computer didn't love you. There was no choice there. Apparently, God desiring our love was important enough that He made choices that He knew full well would not be understood, much less appreciated, by His creatures.

You said, "If a person is strong in their faith, these books should have no effect on them whatsoever." Probably true. Unfortunately, the number of Christians who are strong in their faith is dismally small. It breaks my heart. The majority of people who profess to be Christ-followers are more influenced by their surrounding culture than by what God says, so they are easily swayed by books like Twilight.

You said, "God put the tree of wisdom on earth that ruined everything for everyone. How do you know he hasn't put the author of Twilight here to do the same thing or that he hasn't created vampires for some Godly reason?"

First, I would respectfully submit that "ruining everything for everyone" is a short-sighted perspective on what happened in the Garden. You haven't seen the whole picture yet. The Fall was, indeed, disastrous, but God knew that it would happen and considered the end result worth it. I know you disagree, but that's my perspective on it having read the end of His book.

Whether God put the author of Twilight here to do the same thing or not, I don't know, but I do think the demonic origin of the book is an extremely important part of the story. He has certainly allowed it, and I just trust Him on the things He allows. Finally, if God actually created vampires, we'd probably have some evidence that they exist rather than merely existing in fantasy literature.

Thanks for writing.

Hi Eric

It would be for your own good if you did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God. God is love, He is Pure and full of only Light. In Him, there is NO DARKNESS (evil). Therefore,to say indirectly (yes, I see what you are doing) that God created evil, you are condemning the entire Bible. He has a purpose for everything, and though famine, disasters and other bad things seem so mean and unfair, God HAS A REASON FOR ALLOWING THEM TO HAPPEN. Just understand that He has our best at heart and loves us. Please, in the name of Jesus Christ, ask God to forgive you. I pray that the Holy Spirit of God helps you understand Him better.

Just as you, Sue, were so diligent to research Twilight before forming an opinion, I think people would do well to research Christianity and the Bible before forming an opinion on it. Speaking in generalizations does not an argument make, and going on a rampage definitely cripples your ability to draw others to your side. Sue, thank you for keeping such a cool head.

On the perspective of this recent discussion of why God would create in us a capacity to do evil and then send His Son to die in a horrible fashion, I think it's an idea that is sorely misrepresented in the world, both outside of the church and within it. Because our minds can only fathom so much, our wrestling with the eternal usually only ends in headache and arguments, which, of course, do more damage than what was there in the first place.

God created everything and it was good (check out the first couple of chapters in Genesis). Our ability to choose is GOOD. Like Sue said, there's no meaning in a programmed response. But Satan (formerly Lucifer, Angel of Light), chose to rebel against God, and became the father of lies (John 8:44), thus bringing sin with him into the world. As humans, we are unable to stand up to supernatural forces when we are alone (notice how the serpent didn't come to them when they were walking with God... (read Genesis 3 to see that God had to look for Adam and Eve because they were too guilty to come fellowship as usual)).

Satan’s goal is to take the goodness of God and twisted into something perverted, keeping the allure of truth and delivering a bondage more intense than any manacle. Being the “father of lies,” he’s very good at that (again, see John 8:44). Yes, God did create imagination. Unfortunately, many of us use it as a means of conveying ungodly ideas and a pretense of truth. God lets us choose. Without it, we aren’t much better than a dog.

Although this is an opinion, I like to view the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as something reserved for us after we’d matured some. You wouldn’t trust a baby to know what to do with a weapon, would you? Of course not! But if we had successfully resisted the temptation, I think it possible that God would have eventually allowed us to eat from that forbidden tree when we were ready. Remember, in eternity, good and evil were already an issue when Eve took that first bite. The benefits of the knowledge of good and evil, paired with God’s wisdom, would be a tremendous asset in fighting off the evil one. But, that is just an opinion. I’m just grateful that God took away the tree of life when we sinned, so that we would not be an awful version of the “undead” :) .

Some people view the angels as not having a choice, and that Satan was given a special ability to decide when the others were not. Do remember, though, that Satan has his own angelic followers who were once angels of light. Angels (and their demonic counterparts) do not live in the restrictions of time, so their decision is ever present (which is the closest I can get to describing eternity in the confines of human comprehension). And humans are different from angels, so a Redeemer for them is not the same as it is for us.

Also, because of our dire situation, we see more sides of God than we might have if we had stayed pure. Because of our fall from grace, we get to experience grace. And mercy, and unconditional love. Although God would have still embodied these things, there would be no point of blessing us with them, because we would have no understanding of why we would need them.

Although in my finite, human mind I cannot understand why God would willingly sacrifice His only Son to such a horrific death, I am grateful that he did. Jesus was our perfect lamb (Exodus 12:5, Leviticus 3:1, John 1:29). He was perfect, being fully God and fully man at the same time. I wish I could explain that to you in detail, but even I as a well-learned Christian have trouble reconciling the two. Through His blood, we are once and for all forgiven of our sin, and even though we are not immune to sin, we know that we are not condemned by it anymore, and we live out a life of faith in our gratitude. If only more people lived like that, Christians would not have such a bad rap.

This is our way out of this twisted world that Satan has worked so hard to pervert (and has been way too successful, if you ask me). Mediums like Twilight and other series dedicated to the elevation of the occult (even if the occult is not specifically encouraged within the series) are gold mines for Satan. They brush against that natural yearning in us and whet our appetite for something more, for something not quite of this world, which is what we lost when we chose to sever our connection to God for our own selfish desires at the very beginning.

I have never read the books, but I have seen both movies, and I will admit that I have a little niggling of disquiet in my spirit, but have been negligent to voice it. I have never been drawn to the vampire (horror) genre in general, because it’s always bothered me. Thank you, Sue, for your research. I hope to use it soon.

And sorry about the book :) . Few things get me as riled as someone using God as an excuse for the bad things in life. Never mind that we live in a fallen world and have repeatedly told God to get out, and heaven forbid we actually take responsibility for our own actions. I hope that your endeavors reach more than just those of us who have had the privilege of viewing your blog.

Sue Bohlin's picture

What an amazing comment! Loved everything you said! Thank you so much, Hilary!

Hi Sue, My stepdaughter is obsessed with Twilight. It is terrible, she will cry if she thinks she won't get to see the next one! She is only 8 years old. Her mother, father, grandparents all encourage it. The reason being is that most of those people are obsessed with it as well. It is not just Twilight but this play called Wicked, they take her to see it every time it is around town. She paints her face green and tries to be a witch. Now, let me say these people are christians but yet dabble in darkness. I am totally against it and will not allow my daughter to read or watch any of that dark stuff. I have tried to reason with my husband and warn him about allowing her mind to absorb darkness without any luck. Every backpack and tshirt she has either says Wicked or Twilight on it. It is very scarry and I realize she is only 8 but I believe Satan attacks kids at all ages. I don't understand why they obsess over this stuff and why they allow an 8 year old to become obsessed with it. I have set her down (privately) and told her that witches are real. She got mad and said they weren't real. I told her about how their are people that worship Satan just like we worship the Lord. She got scared and started crying. I thought I had done some good until I seen her again and she was bragging how she got to see the new Twilight. Ugh! Like I said these people are christians and know what darkness is. I do not have a relationship with her mother or my husbands parents so talking to them is out of the question. They have come against me for standing up for what I believe in. They are pastors also. Anyway I have prayed for her and her family but I am worried that it will catch up with her and her family. I worry that they have opened the door for her into darkness and theres nothing I can do. If you have any suggestions please let me know. Thanks!

Sue Bohlin's picture

Dear Worried,

It's a hard place to be--when you see a problem and you're powerless to do anything about it! Obsession is bad enough on its own, but when family members fuel and fan the flames of a 8-year-old's obsession with anything, that's an even bigger problem!

Given the situation, your prayers for spiritual protection are the most important thing you've got going.

But I do want to provide some perspective on witches, particularly with the buzz surrounding "Wicked." I suggest that within literature and the oral tradition of storytelling, magic is a metaphor for the spiritual, supernatural aspect of life. There is more to this life that what we can see, touch and measure, and magic is a way of presenting this truth in story form. Magic is used for good and for evil, and good literature keeps them separate. Literature that we want our 8-year-olds encountering keeps the distinction between good and evil and mirrors, even if unintentionally, God's Redemption Story of good conquering evil. For what is God's Redemption Story if it isn’t the dark and mysterious, as well as light and enchanting fairytale of the Handsome Prince, his Beautiful Beloved, and the Villain who tries to tear them apart, but in which in the end good conquers evil and they both live happily ever after?

Within the larger context of magic as a literary device, not all witches are equal. The occult purveyors of magic (sometimes spelled magick) are in a different category than fantasy figures who represent evil, such as the White Witch in the Narnia Chronicles.

"Wicked" is a side story to the arrival of Dorothy in Oz, playing off the well-known "Wizard of Oz" story. (And I would suggest that this story falls in the category of legitimate, not occult, fantasy.) The witches in Wicked are characters who are used to tell a story about things not being what they seem, and about judging others in wrong ways, but the fact that they are witches is incidental to the point of the story.

What I'm saying is that the fact that a story contains witches and magic doesn't automatically disqualify it as worthy of viewing or reading. It depends on what KIND of witches and what KIND of magic.

When my sons were little, they were fascinated by Superman. I used to make them capes with an appliquéd red "S" on them, and they would pretend to zoom around as if they were flying. One of my friends was concerned about this and asked them one day, "You know that Superman isn't real, but Jesus is, right?" They looked at her with incredulity; yes, they knew that Superman isn't real but Jesus is. Learning the difference between real and make believe is an important part of intellectual development, and they'd learned the lesson. Part of how they learned was my reading  to them for thousands of hours, everything from fairy tales to the Chronicles of Narnia.

Some witches are sheer fantasy figures, like the ones in Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella and Hansel and Gretel. . . and Wicked. They are in a different category than the real witches who are either purposeful (classic Satanism) or unwitting (neo-Satanism, Wicca) followers of Satan.

Hope you find this helpful.

Sue had some good points. Not all things are created equal and not all of these types of movies are created to give the enemy a foothold, HOWEVER, in this case, Twilight is an assignment from the enemy to get a foothold in the hearts of girls and women. But there is something you can do. Pray for her daily. Even though she is only 8, the Spirit of God is able to speak to her heart. Be bold in your prayers to the Lord and bold in the way you pray against the enemy in her heart and life. When you are around her you dont have to bring up twilight, but you can simply speak truth over her and set your hands on her and call forth decernment and wisdom, and a sound mind for her, without her really knowing what your doing. You have been given authority over the enemy and the Holy Spirits power in you is available for action. Greater is HE who is in you than he who is in the world!! The struggle for so many of us in these situations,is while we are aware of the 'issues' we dont take the time to prevail in prayer(we give up to easy) and/or we dont understand our authority in Christ. In the name of Jesus, every evil spirit must submit.

I have two teenage girls and have encountered several teen friends of theirs that I talked to, and they had to rebuke and repent to be set free from the snares of Twilight. They were having nightmares and that same sick obsession. The great and wonderous thing is if we are in Christ Jesus, we can and will defeat the evil the enemy sets out to do. For those that are not in Christ yet, we must prevail in prayer for them, and if God has troubled your heart, as I hear HE has, then HE is calling you to make war on behalf of this little girl. Fight for her, dont give up, and be confident in this...

(Jeremiah 1:12) "The Lord watches over His Word to perform it";

(Isaiah 55:11) "So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void."

(1 John 5:14-15) "Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him."

So if it was me, I would pray with confidence these thing for the 8 year old girl, and her parents. Know that if God laid this on your heart, and you are praying the Will of God found in His Word, He WILL honor your prayers! Blessings to you!

Eph 1:17-18

Eph 3:16-19

Phil 1:9-12

2 Thes 3:5

Heb 12:1-12

Psalm 86:11

Sue and Holly, Thank you so much for your input. But I do have to say I am totally against "Wicked" it is about the green witch in Wizard of Oz, her mother got pregnant with her from having an affair with a married man and the woman of the married man put a curse on her and thats why her baby came out a witch. Whether its a fairy tale or not it is still concerning witchcraft. The bible tells us to stay away from it. Now, if you are an adult and watch the play once and move on that is different. But you have to understand they listen to the soundtrack while driving and they go watch it atleast twice a year. They are obsessed with anything to do with witches, vampires, fairy tales. What ever happened to little girls liking barbies??? I do not like Hannah Montana but she won't even watch that! The play "Wicked" may not be bad for some but if you have obsessions with darkness and keep that door open "Wicked" is not for you. I don't care whether its fairy tales or magical, its not clean and not for christians. How does that up lift God? Once you open that door to magical fairy tales you have opened your mind up to it and the door for Satan to enter. I have to disagree with you Sue on the "Wicked". I have done a lot of research on it because my daughter wanted to watch it and I had to tell her no after I read some of the lyrics of the songs and read the story. Everyone has different opinions but I will not let that door be opened for me or my daughter as long as I am in control. Thank you so much both of you for your encouragement and wisdom.

Sue Bohlin's picture

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Love the strength of your convictions!

Hi to the lady who is worried - I just want to encourage you in standing firm in your conviction. It's important to trust the Holy Spirit in what he speaks to us, and as he searches all things (1 Cor 2:10), he's definately intimately acquainted with your and your family's situation and needs, and what's going to be life-bringing for you or otherwise.

What's permissible is not always beneficial for us hey, and I think a lot of the time we just need to trust God and the conviction he's given us, because he and his word are more solid than peoples' opinions or understanding.

It can be hard to stand up for God's standard, when even other Christians belitttle or persecute you for it - but I'd rather be over the top or err on the side of caution than compromise with the enemy, mix a little of the truth with lies. If we're going to commit to living for Jesus, we might as well be radical about it!!

Stand in there for your family, God will use you in that situation. Praying too that their eyes will be opened to see things for what they really are. You should change your name from worried to Faithful :)

Kudos for trying, Eric, but take one look at late Wittgenstein and you understand why any attempt at communication between secular (non-religious as opposed to anti-religious) and theistic parties is impossible - the meanings of the words used are just different. So because you're talking about different things you're only really talking past each other, and not going to get anywhere!

So, just as a basic example, when you talk about 'truth' you might mean some kind of true belief that you've justified by means of your own expierience, or the experience a source you find to be reliable. But when these guys talk about 'truth' they mean just what is said in the Bible - the writer of this article calls it her "foundation for truth".

Now you might get frustrated with this - of course a lot of the stuff in the Bible, when taken literally, contradicts itself. So people then talk about 'Biblical interpretation' and finding 'inner truth.' But where do you draw the line? Surely the ten commandments don't require much interpretation! But does this mean other stuff doesn't either? Its pretty hard, and ultimately any good balance that someone finds will be their own subjective attempt at the best interpretation. But then how, if this is a subjective interpretation, could it be the direct word of God? Eek... 

But ultimately, at a basic level because you're evalutating THEIR notion of truth according to YOUR standards, of course it isn't going to make sense; otherwise you would've picked their notion of truth in the first place! And that's where the problem lies. It's the same with a lot of other terminology and language as well, you know, with words such as 'knowledge' and 'spirituality'. But what Wittgenstein is arguing, and frankly I agree with him, is that it's not just single words that we might differ on, but whole areas of discussion. And this is one of those situations. 

Am I talking about Twilight? Yes and no. Clearly I am making a more direct comment about Eric's attempt at throwing his view around a discussion page in much the same way that one might try and shoot arrows at the moon; but also Twilight and it's interpretation is a perfect example of a situation in which secular and theistic opinions can never resolve. 

Anyway, enough of my rant. I have a lot of respect for Christians, but in my personal opinion large discussions about demonology in some transitive, crappy piece of teen fiction are even by Christian standards clearly not the best way to aim for God's goodness (whatever that means!) I also have a lot of respect for secular, and even athiestic people. But at some level all of you guys need to accept that no matter how you make your comments, at some level youre always going to be talking past each other. And that goes for different kinds of Christians too!

Sue Bohlin's picture

. . . in talking to someone who believes there isn't going to be any real communication because people are just talking past each other. But I did want you to know I read your comments.

I have read many articles about twilight and how it is evil. It involves all these things etc. Including Stephenie's dreams. What people tend to forget is what stephenie says on her website when explaining how twilight was published.  \

"My older sister, Emily, was the only one who really knew what I was up to. In June, I'd started sending her chapters as I finished them, and she soon became my cheerleading section. She was always checking in to see if I had something new for her. It was Emily who first suggested, after I'd finished, that I should try to get Twilight published. I was so stunned by the fact that I'd actually finished a whole, entire book, that I decided to look into it."

she originaly wrote the book because it wouldnt leave her head. The charecters would talk to her in a way. I know what that is like.  Only her sister knew she was writing the book.  I mean in the same thing she says that her charecters where called she and he the whole time. 

I believe that God gave her the dream and as for the second dream I believe the same, because of Edwards personality.  He believes he is a monster and a killer. At one point in time he did hunt humans, but then realized the error of his ways. 

Stephenie has also said that she doesn't like the way some fans have taken it. This book that everyone finds all these problems with is just a book. It may influence people but its not the only thing.  I believe that those who believe in vampires and that they are one exc. comes from more then just this book. It comes from something lying much deeper in a person.

I am a Christian, everything I do I try to do for christ. I have made mistakes along with everyone else, but I was raised in christ and everything with it. I love my God and I love twilight. But I love my god more then twilight and always will.  I prayed once asking god if I should be reading the books and to give me a sign if i should throw them out etc. Soon after I started getting thoughts on how to connect twilight to God. I saw all these connections I believe was a sign from God to use it.  I mean think about it. There are millions of people around the world who read this saga. If I a fan just as dedicated as them sees these connections of good and bad then isn't it possible I can help them see the same thing and in turn lead them to Christ. There are more worse things in the world then twilight.

There is another book series I read it is good too, but I don't see any negativity about it. It is called blue bloods and it is about vampires as well. Twist is they are also angels sent down to protect the earth from lucifer and his followers. The reason there is not much known negativity about it is simple. Its not as popular and well known as twilight. 

Have you ever thought that your wrong about the novels and God is trying to tell you something. You know nothing about the people who go into these cults etc. dont know what happened in their lives or what brought them to it. Isn't it possible that God gave Stephenie both dreams so you could see the errors in your ways or so that I may see the connections in the books to lead others to him. He knows everything and in the end no matter what you believe or what I believe what God wants will happen. 

You were all for it until you saw everything else. Like people were all for following Jesus until they were told to give up everything. I have been placed in a situation about it and it came down to fellow Christans kicking me out of a church because I like a book. They wouldn't listen to anything I had to say and never even tried to understand.   They never had to agree with me just understand why I love it so much. No one ever really asks the fans why they read the novels and why they love them so much.

I don't agree with what you have to say and what you believe but I can understand how you have come to those conclusions. I just believe there is more to it and that in the long run God will finally shine  and I hope one day you will understand where I come from whether you agree with it or not

Sue Bohlin's picture

I'm glad you were able to see ways to connect Twilight to God, BlueRose, but I stand by my position.

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