Jesus, Under 30s and the Church Feb 18 08
As I leave for a week of ministry including a lectureship in Atlanta, Ga., I came across an interesting analysis of under 30s that fits what I see when I am on the road (and that is about half the weekends fo the year). On Crosswalk.com, C. Michael Craven has discussed the current cultural "branding" of Christianity that leaves many younger evangelicals uncomfortable.
As I leave for a week of ministry including a lectureship in Atlanta, Ga., I came across an interesting analysis of under 30s that fits what I see when I am on the road (and that is about half the weekends fo the year). On Crosswalk.com, C. Michael Craven has discussed the current cultural "branding" of Christianity that leaves many younger evangelicals uncomfortable. It is called "They Love Jesus; They Don’t Like the Church." This is a thought provoking look at the younger evangelical church in the USA. It is worth checking out. I have noted it on PrimeTimeJesus.com as well.
Here is the relevant link to Craven’s remarks:
http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/mCraven/11568526/
Craven has a second article that is similar in tone at The Christian Post. It is called "The Cultural War is Over. We Lost!"
Here is the link to it:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080216/31218_The_Culture_War_is_Over%3A_We_Lost%21.htm
5 Comments
David Coulon
A confusing and disenfranchised Christianity
Dear Dr. Bock,
The youth and the young at heart share in my lifetime experience with “religion.” Whether that of today or yesterday – typically – church is a turn-off. As for myself, I did not tune-in to Christ Jesus until I was turned-on to the gospel of God’s saving grace. Whereby, all my previous notions about “church” were proven to be all to true.
Why is Christianity confusing? What lies behind and below a “parolee” or “works” for merit final redemption? Will a particular conception of divine forgiveness dictate the details of salvation? Would not the gospel message (good news of salvation) then, by necessity, need to conform to this conception of forgiveness? Forgiveness may either be divine or human. I strongly claim that one’s idea of forgiveness will distort or confirm the gospel of God’s grace as it is given in Scripture.
Should one be sincerely interested in the root cause of the confusion and disenfranchisement that is mentioned above, that she/he would greatly benefit by pursuing a personal understanding that salvation (the ordo salutis of a Christian’s daily walk) flys under two flags – Arminian token atonement theory and biblical substitutionary and penal satisfaction. There is a difference as vast as that between the East and the West between living in the knowledge that Christ Jesus will make sure you arrive in glory as planned and the notion that Christ is only there help. Help is what the world offers, certainty is what God can guarantee.
With regards,
Dave
David Coulon
PS to my just previous post
Dr. Bock,
Please respond if you like.
Regards,
Dave
bock
PS dlb
Not sure what to make of all the sweeping rhetoric. I am not sure what you are saying. Thus the lack of a reply. If you are calling people to God’s grace, then amen.
David Coulon
Response to my comment 3-4-08
Dear Dr. Bock,
Oops, probably “the big hat” is still too big for my head. I must appear to be a comical sight. However, I believe this particular “post” is important because the next generation of Christians and Christian teachers are the topic. At the further risk of causing someone’s eyes to glaze over, I’ll try again.
What I would like to convey regarding your posting on today’s Christian youth is to confirm their experience and negative response ( the topic of your posting and Mr. Craven’s article) with my own. The bible.org site is a great source for understanding the NT teachings about God’s saving grace. His gift of forgiveness, the righteousness of Christ, and eternal life are permanent. These gifts of grace only begin to convey the value in the death and resurrection of Christ. However, as you are aware, there exists an opposite Christian evaluation of the work of Christ – past and present.
The vast majority of church attending young (or old) Christians have not a clue why there is a difference. Generally speaking, the average Christian may hold a sketchy idea that Calvinism preaches against free will and Arminianism has corrected this error. I was no different.
For the most part, the difference is attributed to the limits of individual free will and all Christians worship the same Christ. But, this is not true. Christ did not die two different deaths.
Dallas Theological Seminary as a whole does not depend upon a salvation based in the Federal, Governmental, or Rectoral theory of atonement. Many other seminarians do. They depend upon this theory for entrance into heaven and teach accordingly. The difference is not academic. A detailed understanding of reconciliation, redemption, and propitiation is not a prerequisite. It is an evasion and a perfectly elitist notion to pass off the topic as too theological for average consumption.
A Christian or a would-be Christian can well understand that the doctrines of substitutionary imputation – penal demerit to Christ in His death and the merit of the righteousness of Christ to the believer for justification – is real or it is not. Salvation is assured and guaranteed because of Christ, or it is not.
I suggest that salvation, based completely upon the evaluation of the death and resurrection of Christ, is the vital polemical difference that causes much of the symptomatic confusion and negative responses within Christianity that are the topic of this posting. The attittudes, daily concerns, and knowledge of future expectations of each side of the polemic are worlds apart.
I invested almost a year researching and drafting a 900+ page thematic work on salvation (ref., “Systematic Theology,” Lewis Chafer, Vols 5 and 6, Christology and Soteriology). I could of spent three lifetimes attending church and never been the wiser. My empathy is with the sincere believer who is not.
In regard to “Calvinistic” predestination, I do not believe that God ordained some to live in the belief that salvation was conditional and some to live in the belief that it is not. Within orthodox Christianity, one man’s grace appears to be another man’s false grace.
I offer the polemic contained in the following website as example of my comment. about grace:
http://www.hallvworthington.com/grace.html
I offer the following short piece of fiction as an illustration of my concern and comment to younger Christians.
“The Two Gospels – A Comic Tragedy”
Life is a short airplane flight. It is impossible that the pilot will discover a fatal hidden flaw in the wing of her single seat plane. She is flying over a vast oceanic world inhabited by sharks. A parachute is available.
This is the gospel message on the pilot’s radio, Jesus Christ says: “All pilots were born to die and go to perdition because of a fatally damaged airplane; He will save and regenerate “the spirit and soul and body” of all living men who jump without a parachute and trust Him for salvation because He came and died to defeat all the sharks.”
Another gospel radio transmission is that Jesus Christ says: “All pilots were born to die and go to perdition because they do not fight sharks; He will reward the souls of all dead men who have become good shark fighters and trust Him for salvation, and, this because He is the great example who came and died to show mankind how to fight sharks.”
A pilot may either wake-up to this false dilemma, or not. The awakened pilot realizes that through no fault of her own, she is going to die, but more importantly, her everlasting fate is immanent. By faith she is required to take a leap and leave the safety of a terminally flawed airplane. But she must leave before it is too late.
The end of this analogy is: pilots and shark fighters alike, become eternal sharks in the sea of lost mankind; but, those who believe and act in trust that Christ defeated all the sharks will live with Him in a regenerated spirit, body, and soul.
______________________________________
The above illustration to a true decision of faith may be exemplified in the “enigma” of the following verses. Which may only be clarified by the different Greek words and meanings which underlie the one English word “life” used in the KJV and other translations.
Mtw 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life because of me will find it. NET
Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and for the gospel will save it. NET
John 12:25 The one who loves his life destroys it, and the one who hates his life in this world guards it for eternal life. NET
With regards,
Dave
Jim Joyner
Hard to follow
Dave, Did you smoke a lot of pot at one point in your life? Your comments are very hard to follow, but they are obviously thoughts you are passionate about. Sorry, but I think you may project more passion that logic.