Good News – Genesis 7
Context of Genesis 7
Context of Genesis 7
Almost all of the pre-flood history documentation we have is found in the first 6 chapters of Genesis. After creation and the fall we have genealogies, one of life from Seth to Noah, and one of death from Cain. Genesis 6 provides a sketch of pre-flood life. The flood came during a time of wickedness across the earth. Finally God decides to wipe the slate clean. Noah was a good man who didn’t fall into the debauchery of his neighbors. His reward was to preach to the deaf, be the butt of endless jokes for building a ship on dry land, to become God’s chief zoologist, and to have to see everyone and everything he knew destroyed. He came through the ordeal with only what he had on his ship. He lived many years after the flood. He surely saw a decimated world akin to a soggy Martian landscape when he emerged. He would have seen the plant life rejuvenate over the years. He would have seen several generations born and dispersed. Genesis 7 deals specifically with the collection of animal life into the ark and the launch of the flood.
People Math
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. The flood happened 1650 years after God breathed life into Adam. This can be easily calculated using the pre-flood genealogy given in earlier chapters. Noah himself was 600 when the flood began. His life would have overlapped most of his ancestors except Adam and Seth. If you assume pre-flood lifespans of the documented patriarchs are typical, as well as average households of several sons and daughters, there could easily have been a billion people on earth when the flood struck. Everyone alive today, however, is a descendent of Noah.
Animal and Ark Math
Gen 7:2-3 Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate, and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth. God told Noah to gather 2 of every unclean and 7 of every clean animal (Gen 7:2-3). You will notice from this translation it appears there should be 14 of each clean animal, but the original language lends itself to a more likely interpretation of 7 animals. This would be more in line with keeping animals in pairs with one extra of each clean animal for the sacrifices made after Noah exited the ark (Gen 8:20).
Using the dimensions for the ark documented in Genesis 6:15, it would have easily held the requisite air breathing animal life with plenty of room for food stuffs and living quarters for the family. There is much conjecture about how the animals were gathered and kept in captivity for the duration of their stay aboard ship, but there’s no questioning the ark could have done the job. If a “cubit” were a conservative measure of 17.5 inches, the ark would have been at least 437 feet long by 73 feet wide by 44 feet tall. Since it had three decks (Gen 6:16) it would have had about 96,000 square feet of interior deck. This is equal to about 20,000 standard basketball courts. At about 14,000 tons displacement it would have been of similar size to a large modern ocean vessel of today’s shipping industry.
In other words the ark would have held about 522 standard railroad stock cars of animals. The total number of air breathing vertebrate animal species today is roughly 18,000. Double that and you have about 36,000 animals. The statistically average size of factoring all mammals, birds and other air breathing animals would be the size of sheep at most. One rail stock car will hold about 240 sheep. To hold two of every animal would require only 72 rail cars. Only a fraction of the animals were “clean,” but even if they were all clean that would still only be less than 300 rail cars. When you factor that of the unique species we have today many are sub-variants that could easily be adaptations over 4000 years. This may reduce the total number of animals on the ark by a factor of 4 or better. Regardless, the ark surely had plenty of room for all animals and people to live in relative comfort with enough food storage to last a year.
Flood Math
Gen 7:4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.” The flood is often thought to have only lasted 40 days. Many people do not realize Noah was actually locked inside the ark for nearly a whole year. Here’s the breakdown:
Noah entered the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd month of his 600th year (Gen 7:11)
Rain fell 40 days (Gen 7:12).
The waters prevailed another 110 days (Gen 7:24 – the water prevailed 150 days including the 40 days of rain plus another 110 days).
At the end of the 150 days (17th of the 7th month) the waters abated to the point Noah’s ship began coming to rest among the peaks of the Mountains of Ararat (Gen 8:4).
On the 1st day of the 10th month (about 74 more days later; about 224 days total) the peaks of the mountains became visible as the waters continued to recede (Gen 8:5).
On the 1st day of the 1st month of his 601st year (284 days total) the earth began to dry around the ark (Gen 8:13).
On the 27th day of the 2nd month (371 days total) the earth was dry and God told Noah to open up and come on out (Gen 8:14-16).
The Good News of Genesis 7
Gen 7:1 Then the Lord said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation. Of an entire world of people, perhaps a billion or more men, only Noah was chosen by God to survive and repopulate the earth. This verse says Noah was found righteous.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. Noah’s righteousness was not because of the action he took, but because he had the faith to trust God and take the action in faith God would keep His word.
Gen 7:23 He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark. The waters raged until all life was destroyed. Satan rages, seeking to devour and destroy. As he succeeds in drawing people into unbelief and thereby into unrighteousness people are doomed to condemnation (Jn 3:18). The ark carried the righteous man (and his family) through the death of the world. Jesus Christ rose from the grave on the third day by the power of God. Christ thus defeated death. Even as Noah saved his wife and children from earthly death so Jesus saves his bride (the church) and all the children of God from eternal death. The ark was the vehicle by which earthly salvation from destruction was afforded to Noah. The cross was the vehicle by which eternal salvation was made possible for all who believe in God (Heb 2:10). Noah built the ark himself. The flood could not prevail over the ark and death cannot prevail over the sinless Christ (1 Jn 5:4-5). Noah had faith in God and obeyed resulting in salvation. We are raised from the dead at the last trump (1 Th 4:16) by faith. Our faith is genuine when we love and trust God enough to obey Him and our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Jn 2:3). When our faith is genuine we are counted righteous and our sins are forgotten (Heb 10:17) and we are joined with Christ, risen incorruptible forever (1 Cor 15:42).
13 Comments
John I.
People math
How do you deal with the gaps in the lineage listings? Or the use of large age numbers as a sign or symbol of respect? There is virtually no Biblical scholar of any repute that takes the lineages at face value and simply adds them up to get a date.
John I.
John I.
Ark math
I find the math very implausible. Two matters come readily to mind. First, one cannot pack animals as if they are packing crates and expect them to survive, so the room estimate has to be done differently. Second, what about cleaning up urine and faeces? or even feeding? There are far too many animals for this to be done effectively by the few people on board.
The ark also does not deal with the issue of water dwelling creatures. If the flood was salty, how did freshwater plants and water creatures survive? or conversely, if the flood was freshwater?
John I.
Lance Ponder
Math
John,
To say no scholars of reputation take the ages in Genesis at face value requires either ignoring those who do or dismissing those who do as being without reputation. Either way it your assertion is false and not relavant to the post.
Interesting questions about the water, but also there are solid answers for all your concerns. Thank you for asking. Since I have not the time to answer properly right now I suggest you visit answeringenesis.com and look there if you want more technical information. I know that sounds like a dodge – and it is – but as I've explained my time online is limited so I must offer you that recommendation.
John I.
calculations of earth age from human chronologies
"ignoring those who do"
Could you tell me whom would they be? My knowledge is not exhaustive, so I could be wrong and I would like to read things written by such scholars.
One argument against the Genesis genealogies being continuous is that Kohath entered Egypt (Genesis 46:5-27; Exodus 1:1-4): " 5 Then Jacob left Beersheba, and Israel’s sons took their father Jacob and their children and their wives in the carts that Pharaoh had sent to transport him. 6 So Jacob and all his offspring went to Egypt, . . . 11 The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath and Merari. . . ." The immigration to Egypt was was 430 years before the Exodus (Exodus 12:40-41; Acts 7:6). At the time of the Exodus Moses was 80 (Exodus 7:7, "7
Moses was eighty years old and Aaron eighty-three when they spoke to Pharaoh."). Consequently we a time period of 350 years from Kohath to Amram to Moses. But Levi and Amrath only lived 137 years each (Exodus 6:16-20; see also the same genealogy in Numbers 26:57-59; and 1 Chronicles 6:1-3; 23:6, 12-13). One must also note that 1 Chronicles 24:20 gives a genealogy of Amram that does not include Moses or Aaron, and that the Exodus genealogy does not mention Shubael.
Furthermore, Numbers 26:59 states "59 the name of Amram’s wife was Jochebed, a descendant of Levi, who was born to the Levites", and Exodus 6:20 indicates that she was Amram's aunt. Since Genesis states that she gave birth to Aaron, Moses and Miriam, she would have to be at least 350 years old when she gave birth to Moses–if there were no gaps in the genealogies. Moreover, Kohath had 8,600 's male (i.e., not counting females) descendents at the time of Moses (Numbers 3:27, 28), and 1/3 (2,750) were between the age of 30 and 50 (Numbers 4:36). How is it possible for his wife(ves) (and his immediate sons and daughters) to give birth to this many people? Not physically possible. Nor necessary. The genealogies of Joshua (Moses’ contemporary) for this time period number 12 intermediates compared to Moses’ 4 (1 Chronicles 7:20–27).
Given that Hebrew has few kinship terms than English, and that the Hebrew terms son and father and begat also refer to earlier ancestors and later descendents, we have an indication that something else is being done with the genealogies than providing a chronology of the earth itself. Indeed, there is no indication anywhere in Genesis that God or his inspired prophets are interested in providing a timeline for the earth itself. It is the people that are of interest, not the earth, because it is to the people that promises have been given that relate specifically to their descendents.
It is also important that the genealogy in Luke 3 contains a name–Cainan–that is missing from the genealogy in Genesis 11. If Luke's gospel is inerrant, then it follows that the genealogy in Genesis 11 is incomplete with respect to at least one name, and possibly more. I do realize that a scribal “error” is possible, as out of all the many copies of Luke there are two manuscripts that lack the name Cainan.
One has to come to the text with a bias, with a preconceived notion that the earth is young (only thousands of years old) in order to come up with a reading that gives a 4,000 year old chronology of the earth (from creation to Christ). Such a reading is neither required nor demanded by the text itself. The bias is derived from a western cultural assumption about how to read genealogies, from tradition or authority, or from a particular way of interpreting scripture coupled with a fear mongering, namely interpret it this way or one cannot trust the Bible at all.
regards,
John I.
Lance Ponder
Genealogical Problems
There are even more genealogical issues than you've brought up, but I'm sure you know that. There's another problem with the 400/430 year issue that you might not be aware of, but which actually addresses some of what you've talked about here. I'm not interested in regurgitating all the math here because frankly it gives me a headache, but there's strong evidence on examination of the original language text that the Egyptian captivity was much less than 400 years. The evidence suggests that the 400 (or more precisely the 430 years) began when the original promise was issued to Abraham, not when Jacob and family actually entered Egypt. This reduces the time from Jacob and family moving to Egypt until the exodus to a period of about 215 years, if memory serves. If this is true (and I lean toward this interpretation rather than the more common 400 years IN Egypt), it makes the genealogical pill much easier to swallow when it comes to the part between Judah and the decendents who participated in the exodus. While that solution may solve some of the problems you've brought up, it tightens the "earth age by genealogy" to a couple of centuries less than the proposed 6000 years to more like around 5800 years. You might find it interesting to note that according to the modern Israeli calendar, which numbers years from Creation, the earth is at just under 5800 years old. As the genealogies of Jesus given in Luke and Matthew, there's lots of room to debate who means what and why they said certain things that appear to be "approximations" or the like. If you'd rather dwell on those things than the gospel message this post was about, you are free to do so, but I still appreciate your willingness to read and comment and I hope and pray God blesses you through it.
John I.
dwelling on the gospel message
I agree with the truth that you set out in your section, "The Good News of Genesis 7", and I agree that those are good truths to dwell on. However, I don't see how those truths follow from, or bear any relation to, the previous three sections–which make up more than half of your post ("People Math", "Animal and Ark Math", "Flood Math"). Since these sections form a very substantial portion of your post, I thought it appropriate to respond to them. I'm responding not to somehow prove a point or ride a hobby horse, but rather to press a brother to substantiate his claims that are being propogated to the body at large. I derive benefit from the other passages you cite in connection with what you write, but I'm not convinced that there is benefit in some of the other material–though I am open to being convinced. And I am open, because I don't see either young or old earth creationism as essential to faith in Jesus (creationism–yes, but young or old–no).
Thanks for interacting with my posts. BTW if you come across any links or written material regarding the Egypt time period calculation, and you have the time and inclination, please post as I'm interested in reading them. It's not a life or death issue for me, but it is interesting.
regards,
John I.
Lance Ponder
re dwelling
John,
Thank you for clarifying. I run across a lot of folks on other sites that agressively seek to blast everything said for the sake of blasting it. As that is not your intent I'll try to relax. As to the young/old earth issue, for many people it isn't particularly important. For many others, however, it is very important. A big part of it is the matter of trusting scripture generally and Genesis in particular. Theologically it is important because of the sin/death relationship. If there was death before sin, then sin can't be the cause of death. If sin isn't the cause of death, the whole purpose of Jesus dying for our sin and having victory over death becomes nonsense. This issue made it vital to me to determine for myself if the account of the opening chapters of Genesis were true. Not just allegorically, but factually. I have become fully convinced that Genesis is literally true and astoundingly accurate. I am not a scientist, nor a bible scholar, but I seek to do my best to relate what I've been learning when I speak or write on anything relating to this subject. I appreciate iron sharpening iron, so I welcome constructive criticism and critiques.
As for the 400/430/215 year math for Egypt, it has been a while since I did that research. It took me months to conclude the 215 year view was better (imo) – I spent most of that time trying to prove 400/430 position and could not. English translations typically make it difficult to accept, but between the archaelogical record (what little there is), Hebrew tradition, and other clues in scriptures I lean heavily toward the 215 year version.
In response to some of your other questions… I recommend visiting answersingenesis.org and icr.org to start with to find listings of reputable scientists who are creationists (many but not all are YEC). Dozens of scholars are listed in the credits of Dr. Henry Morris and John Whitcomb's book "The Genesis Flood." This book was written quite a few years ago and there's a lot of new science since then, but many of their core premises remain as true today as they did when it was first published. Dr. Morris was the founder of ICR (Institute for Creation Research). Unlike AiG, ICR provides various free materials including monthly technical magazine and devotionals. My biggest problem with AiG is their commercialism.
If you haven't seen Ben Stein's movie Expelled, I would also recommend that. It will help explain the reason that anyone publically holding the YEC position is not accepted in the broad scientific community.
John Inglis
death before sin
Lance, you write " If there was death before sin", but it's not entirely clear to me what events you are relating with the time indicator "before".
Your writing implies that by "sin" you mean the sin of Adam and Eve. But what about the sin of Satan? His rebellion must predate that of Adam else he would not be tempting Adam. Since scripture does not further date the time of his rebellion, it certainly could be days (or years) before that of Adam. If that is so, then there is no reason (that I can think of) for not laying the pre-Adamic sin and corruption of earth at his feet.
Another way of handling this would be W. Dembski's idea that, because God foreknew the sin of Adam, he cursed the earth because of that sin but in time before Adam was created. That is, God being in control of time can have "results" precede their causes / precipitating events on the basis of his foreknowledge of the inevitability of those events.
Either way, I don't see that corruption of the earth prior to Adam poses any problems (for any view of the length of the creation period).
regards,
John I.
Lance Ponder
re death before sin
John, you pose an interesting idea, but I do not buy it. When I say death before sin I am indeed talking about Adam. Adam was given stewardship for all the natural realm. The natural realm received the curse with Adam. I personally cannot accept the idea of human or animal death prior to Adam's sin. Regardless of when Satan fell, and I do understand your logic in suggesting death could be tied to Satan's fall, the curse did not occur until Adam sinned. At the end of the sixth day God stated that everything was very good. I don't think very good included death. Besides, there's no theo/philosophical reason to need death before sin unless you need to suppose something other than six days of creation about 6000 years ago. Of course you are free to believe as you will, but I do not accept death in the natural realm before sin.
John Inglis
Satan and the first sin
Good does not entail perfect or complete, and in any case in the context it seems to refer only to God's actions and what he made, and not to what was done with or to his creation after it was made.
As for the curses, they are specific to the individuals themselves, and do not refer to creation generally. That is, creation could have gone wrong in many ways because of Satan's evil, and it can later be that all of creation is involved in making it hard for Adam to farm. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Furthermore, in the New Testament it is made clear that the entire earth is the realm of Satan and under his temporary dominion (temptation story, Ephesians, etc.). Given that that is so, Satan could have been warping his dominion prior to his successful tempting of Eve and Adam.
In addition, there are creations such as bacteria that have very short lifespans, that would have died prior to sin, and any plants eaten would also be dead. Or what about the consumption of plankton and krill and corals? It does not seem to me appropriate to call those deaths evil or wrong.
There is a difference between "natural evil" such as animal and plant death and moral evil. I don't see the creation story as unequivocally excluding the former.
All that is to say that the scriptural evidence is an open and shut case for one view of evil. One must balance the evidence and come to a conclusion and the Biblical evidence is not such that only one view is possibly true.
Hence I don't see the issue of pre-Adamic evil as a sort of nail in the coffin of other views. One can argue for or against the plausibility of the various views, but one cannot say that the other views are absolutely and without a doubt impossible interpretations of scripture.
regards,
John I.
Lance Ponder
Re first sin
John,
Once again I thank you for posing interesting points. I am not convinced, but I can see where you are coming from. I'm not sure I can do justice to all of your points so I'll hit just a few. Regarding plant death, Genesis indicates the plants were created to serve purposes including and particularly as food for animals. As for bacteria, while we might classify such things in the animal kingdom, I'm not so sure our definitions exactly match God's. I've also learned that entropy existed prior to the fall as well and I don't have a problem with that. Many things can have happened and obviously not everything that did happen is found in scripture. After all, we have just one text in the Hebrew scriptures that spans more than 2000 years of pre-Moses history. Other cultures have pieces of things, but really very little has been preserved apart from scripture, so I freely admit there's far more we don't know than we do know. We particularly have only a partial understanding of other beings we call angels and demons. I believe in their existence and I believe there is value in knowing about them as we interact with them all the time – whether we realize it or not. In fact, it is this belief which provides strong postive feedback to my belief in the literal and factual accuracy and truth of scripture including and especially the opening chapters of Genesis.
As to absolutes, I freely admit that my knowledge is not absolute and my understanding is not absolute even of information that I consider absolute. I require no one to believe what or as I do. It is my great joy to share what I believe God has revealed to me and so I am thankful that you are willing to engage on these subjects.
Does good = perfect? I do not know enough about how the original language for "good" used in Genesis to say with certainty, though I do believe God is perfect and complete and I do not think original creation was "flawed" until we, through free will, sinned. Prior to Satan's rulership Adam was given stewardship of the earth. A great deal happened at the fall and there are incredible ramifications from the curse of Gen 3. Praise God for making the way, for providing us a means of escape from the bondage of sin unto death into liberty unto life. I hope we agree on this even if we do not fully agree on some of these other particulars. Amen? Amen.
John I.
I can agree that the creation
I can agree that the creation as done by God is not flawed, and if that is what you mean by perfect, then we agree. There is another meaning of perfect that has to do with ultimate end, that something cannot change because it is perfect. It is that sense of perfect that I do not think applies to God's creation. Clearly creation was not "perfect" or "perfected" in that sense on day one, because God went on to create additional things. So I think it is clear that something can be good, and also fit for God's purposes, but at the same time be in a less developed form than that which will be achieved over the passage of time.
If you believe in the death of plants and bacteria (whatever form or organism they are) prior to Adam's sin, then the issue cannot be death simpliciter (i.e., death without further qualifications), but the kind of death. So one is then led to ask, what kind of death is introduced by Adam's sin that mars God's creation? What other forms of organisms could die before Adam's sin?
Enjoying the conversation,
John
Lance Ponder
Re Agree
John,
Sorry for not being online in a couple of days to approve the comment. Again you bring up great questions.
There's something unique about humans and animals compared with plants. While plants do breathe, in a sense, they don't breathe in the same sense. Scripture provides some detail about the formation of Adam that isn't provided about other living things, part of which being that God breathed life into Adam and made him a living soul. Scripture also makes clear that animals have souls. It does not make it clear that plants have souls. It is certainly debatable about "swarming things" or fish, so I don't take a strong stand on those. It does say the plants exist for food, so we know that plants were created for that purpose. It seems to me that the issue of death before applies to that which has a soul. Some would argue it only applies to humans, though I don't share that position. It is my opinion, based on my understanding from scripture, that death of humans and animals did not occur prior to the fall. I'm fully confident about humans and highly confident about animals. Where we might find it challenging is defining what constitutes an animal scripturally vs the scientific definition.